Castle Rat’s Riley Pinkerton Laughs Off ‘Industry Plant’ Talk

Castle Rat's "rat queen" Riley Pinkerton has seen some interesting responses as the band's profile continues to rise, but she got a good laugh out of the suggestion that their very much DIY group were "industry plants."

While speaking with Full Metal Jackie about their latest album The Bestiary, Pinkerton was asked about the surprisingly quick response when the band turned to Kickstarter to work on the album. They met their financial goal in 37 minutes, leaving a full month with additional funds coming in.

While that response was "mind-blowing," it just adds an extra element of pressure and let's you know how invested the fans are. But it also led to some interesting responses.

"I don't go on Reddit or anything, but my bandmates do. And so I hear reports back of people being like, "They're industry plants," which is hilarious and a compliment," says Pinkerton. "I'm like, damn, we're doing all this super DIY and you think that we're industry plants. That's the funniest comeback, because other people will chime in and they'll be like, 'Who would plant a medieval rodent-themed doom metal band in the industry and be like, 'You know what's really gonna make us money? This rodent-themed medieval doom metal band.'"

Within the chat, Pinkerton speaks with Full Metal Jackie about the themes running through The Bestiary album, having a trajectory for displaying their musical influences and offering a hint of where they might go next and sacrificing some of the control in her band to make it a more collaborative process for the group.

Pinkerton also talks about creating the lore for their theatrical stage show, learning to sword fight and what she's picked up from touring with Amon Amarth and Dethklok.

Check out more of the chat below.

It's Full Metal Jackie, and I'm so excited to welcome to the show for the very first time, the one and only Rat Queen. That's right, we've got Riley Pinkerton from Castle Rat with us. Things are going well for Castle Rat right now. We're here to talk about their excellent album, The Bestiary, and what has to be a dream tour with our friends in Dethklok and Amon Amarth. Riley, there's been viral attention to what is a very theatrical live show. How much would you say that the visual presentation played into what you wanted musically on The Bestiary?

The music always comes first. That's first and foremost within Castle Rat. When I set out to start the band, there were no plans for costumes or theatrics. We were just gonna be a doom metal band. And then we played a Halloween show, and then we were in costumes, and I was like, "Wait, this is very fun and very liberating." So I was like, "Let's just do it every time," 'cause when something is fun, I like to do it as much as possible.

The Bestiary, I had a loose concept of a book of beasts and had sort of a checklist of mystical creatures that I wanted to write songs for. And then we did a lot of retrofitting in Castle Rat, where I'm like, "All right, I wanna do this thing," and then later I will make up a reason why.

Afterwards I will make the lore and it will somehow all make sense. I'll just make it up as I go. Which is good when your lore contains interdimensional time travel. You can pretty much get away with anything.

Castle Rat, "Wolf I"

Castle Rat is still very much a work in progress. The first album was primarily you, but The Bestiary is a more collaborative effort. And in listening to it, it feels so rooted in and '80s-era metal. Can you speak to opening it up to a more collaborative experience and share both a moment on this record that is very much your influence and one that you love that comes from one of the other members?

It was a learning curve for me. We set a really ambitious timeline to write and record an album, 'cause we wanted to follow up the first record really quickly. And there were tears on my end. No one else cried. It was just me. But I was learning to put my ego aside and allow myself the great honor of working with such talented musicians that I am blessed to be in a band with.

I think part of me being a woman in music and in metal, it takes a lot of pride and feels like it's very necessary to prove that I can do anything and everything. So that's always been my hesitation in collaborating because I've gotten offstage and someone will be like, "Oh, those guys," meaning the men in my band, "write really great riffs." And I'm like, "What the heck? I wrote all of that." And I'm playing guitar on stage. But they would just be like, "Yeah, your guitar player writes great riffs." And I'm like, "Hang on a second."

I think that's a unique experience of feeling like I have to prove myself on this other level that is just unique to being a woman in music.

But I'm gaining confidence in, like, "Okay, I've, I started this thing. I've created something that's bigger than myself and I have such talented people around me. I should learn to ease up." This whole process is me learning to let go of control in certain areas in order to make it a more sustainable thing because now it's bigger than myself and people want albums and music videos and I wanna deliver on it.

Riley, we were talking about how this one came together more collaboratively. So which songs really reflect that?

One of the most collaborative songs was "Serpent," where I'd written a much doomier version of the song. And we all were throwing different parts in it and we all hated it. And we all hated different parts of it. I was like, "This isn't good."

So kinda last minute, I was like, "We're scrapping the song. I'll keep the lyrics." And we wrote it in the room together, which was the only time that we started from scratch together, where I had a melody. And then Josh, the all-seeing druid on drums, brought in the rhythm. Franco had this great walk-down thing that was proposed for another song and we were able to pull it into "Serpent." And the chorus, the boys played it and I sang over it and I sang in a way that I never would have if I were at home writing it by myself. And it blossomed into a really beautiful thing and it's one of my favorite songs on the album.

And "Siren" is another collaborative one that Franco, the count of Castle Rat, brought forward the idea of ending with a thrashier riff. And then the other part of the question was...

One that you love that comes more from one of the other members.

Franco wrote "Path of Moss," which is just this little guitar interlude that is so moving where I kind of gave them the leeway. I think it's the last track on "Melissa" by Mercyful Fate, but they have a very melodic kind of finger-picky kind of little sappy metal moment.

I was like, "Franco, give us, give us one of those." And he sent me that recording and I remember I was at home in my apartment, and it was, like, 6 in the morning, and I listened to it and I just cried. And I was like, "I didn't know Franco had such deep feelings within him." And yeah, it's just such a beautiful moment on the record.

Castle Rat, "Serpent"

Riley, we were just talking about some of the influences. Like I said earlier, there's a very '70s and early '80s vibe to what we're hearing. But you've said in other interviews that you're not looking to get pigeonholed by a particular sound. First, what music led you down the path we're hearing now on The Bestiary and are there places you'd like to take it in the future?

Definitely. I think it's pretty clear that Black Sabbath is a pretty major influence. It's inescapable. With this album, we pulled references from Judas Priest and Iron Maiden, and intentionally pushed it to later '70s, early '80s, where I feel like our first album is more like late '60s, early '70s.

And seeing as we have time travel as an option in the lore, my goal is to maybe push it into the '90s for the next album. I'm a huge Type O Negative fan.

My favorite band of all time, Riley.

Yeah. Same. We currently have a little playlist that we're all dumping '90s inspo into. So it's fun. I'm excited to [get to it]. I want to push the boundaries a bit and see how much we can change our sound while still remaining Castle Rat.

I've been joking and being like, "We're gonna write an industrial metal album," and I feel like sometimes Franco is like, "Oh no, that might be too much of a departure." And I'm like, "I don't mean it. I don't mean what I say." It'll be through the Castle Rat filter and it will have our influence and flavors, but it's always gonna be our own thing.

But yeah, we're headed for '90s goth.

I dig it.

Maybe. I want, like, October Rust sense and feel.

Yes, now you're speaking my language.

Riley, there is a love and passion for a fantastical world in the music that you write. It's something you used to see a lot more of in metal. I'm assuming there's a love for that type of storytelling and I was curious if there's a particular book, series, movie that kind of sparked your love for exploring the fantasy elements. And is there anything more recent that's piqued your interest?

Yeah. I grew up going to renaissance festivals. There's a really good one in Michigan that I grew up going to. I loved dressing up and that immersive world thing, the escapism of fantasy. When I was really little, I reread all of the books in The Chronicles of Narnia multiple times because to me, you couldn't beat talking animals. My ideal world is talking to a bunch of animals more so than people. And hence The Bestiary,

Then later on, I got really into Frank Frazetta's artwork which is a huge aesthetic inspiration for Castle Rat. The way he depicts women as strong and sultry and he gives them exaggerated figures. But he grounds the fantasy in very realistic details of stretch marks or dimples on thighs or backs of arms that hang when their arms are outstretched. And they look powerful and real. And I don't know, that's something that I really try to capture with Castle Rat on an aesthetic and performance level is we're presenting a fantasy, but it's a warts and all thing.

Costumes that are threadbare or I forgo nylons onstage, and there's plenty of photos where I have the initial knee-jerk reaction of, like, "Oh, no, I'm not perfect," and then I think again and I think about Frazetta, and then I'm like, "Cool, that's gonna go on the Instagram," and hopefully that helps someone else feel comfortable in their body the way that looking at his art helped me kind of feel more empowered by being a natural person.

But a natural person with fake eyelashes. Let's be honest.

One of the more interesting things is that Castle Rat wasn't initially intended to have the more theatric show. It came up as something fun, as you mentioned, after a Halloween gig that developed into the masks and the sword fights. That's also led to having to go back and create a lore around it. How enjoyable was it coming up with the backstory and presentation? And is it something where you've started doing your homework on how others that have had success in this space have built their history up for the fans?

Yeah it's so fun. It's fun also when I get asked questions about the lore, 'cause other people's different perspectives will find holes in the plot and then I'll just make up about time travel and be like, "Well, here's why, actually."

The time travel loophole.

And it's a beautiful thing. It's really fun. And I have the backstories on a lot of the characters that go a lot deeper than we're able to get into onstage and that's something that I think will be really fun to explore in comic books or...I mean, my huge dream would be to have Castle Rat the movie.

As you should...

And making music videos. So it would be really cool to do the long format version of something like that. I feel like once you are in the habit of thinking about how to do something, and it took a long time to develop the stage show and a lot of trial and error and a lot of shows where I would tweak one little thing and see if that works a little bit better in getting the audience on our side or communicating a bunch of lore to people in an echoey room where you have to amplify the language to a certain degree to get the message across without making it feel like super dumbed down to where the audience feels insulted, but easy enough to grasp that they can catch it in a single night out.

It's a fun challenge and I feel like I've watched a lot of live videos of KISS performing, that's like a master class in putting on an amazing show and learning how to really get an audience on your side. So I've taken some pages out of the KISS playbook. I spit blood, 'cause that's always awesome. Whoever you are, just spit up blood and people will love you.

What's more metal than that, honestly?

So yeah I feel like I'm always looking in funny places to grab inspiration too.

Riley, Take me onto the the stage a bit. You get the idea to choreograph the sword fight. Had you had much experience with the sword prior? Is it something you've gotten more into learning since it's become part of the show?

No prior experience wielding a sword. I like archery. I've done little bits here and there of, of archery, which I really enjoy, but sword wielding is ... I learned it for the love of the rat. And I've been really fortunate. We've tapped into the really amazing dance community in Brooklyn.

Josh, the all-seeing druid, his partner, Maddie, is an amazing dancer/choreographer who had taken some battle choreography classes. So she and I developed the original battle scene choreography, which I'm not known for my ability to move my body. So it was a learning process for me and then we've had Becca Corrigan and Reagan Smith as rat reapers along the way.

We've all kinda thrown ideas together. The Bestiary has a different battle scene than the original show. The Bestiary one was a little snappier. It took me a while to figure out how to get my body through that whole thing, 'cause I'm pretty awkward, but it's fun.

And it's worth mentioning that our weapons are LARP-grade foam, 'cause I do have a bad habit of occasionally stabbing the rat reapers for real. Sometimes, a guy will come up and he's like, "I noticed that your your sword is foam and it would be so sick if you had a real sword." I'm like, "I can't afford to kill my friends onstage by accident." So we're sticking with foam.

We've got the rat queen, Riley Pinkerton of Castle Rat, on the show with us this week. And as a young band on the rise, it's not all laid out for you. There's a lot of DIY here and for this most recent album, you went the Kickstarter route to get it off the ground. There was an overwhelming response taking care of what you were hoping to raise in a relatively short amount of time. What did it mean to you to see the response, and do you feel the fans really feel like they have a stake in this band?

It was mind-blowing. I think we hit our goal in 37 minutes and we were all losing our minds. And then we still had a whole month to raise more money. That level of support was just baffling and it puts a certain amount of pressure on you where, "Oh, people really care. They really want another album."

So we're feeling like, okay, we really have to deliver. We would've put pressure on ourselves no matter what. But it has a different flavor when people are backing you like that. Castle Rat's been such a DIY grassroots thing, which is funny.

I don't go on Reddit or anything, but my bandmates do. And so I hear reports back of people being like, "They're industry plants," which is hilarious and a compliment. I'm like, damn, we're doing all this super DIY and you think that we're industry plants. That's the funniest comeback, because other people will chime in and they'll be like, "Like, who would plant a medieval rodent-themed doom metal band in the industry and be like, 'You know what's really gonna make us money? This rodent-themed medieval doom metal band." So that's something I always really get a kick out of, and it's funny because they don't see behind the scenes.

Like, I just built a 10-foot rat puppet, a backpack puppet, for this tour in my friend's kitchen with him. And it's all very hands on. It's upholstery foam and fabric from a local fabric store. And I had to figure out how to put whiskers on this giant rat, so I found white feathers and tore the feathers off and turned those into whiskers and it's like everything in Castle Rat's held together by gaff tape, duct tape and hot glue where it's all hanging by a thread.

But yeah, it's a labor of love and I feel like people who come to shows can see that. And I think that's something that people really connect with, 'cause they see we're putting a lot of effort into putting on a great show, no matter how tiny the stage is. Cramming in battle scenes on a tabletop it feels like sometimes.

Riley as a creative type who has developed a very cool live show. I have to think being paired up with Dethklok and Amon Amarth has to be the ideal tour. Now getting out there on the road and spending time with other bands, how much do you value these experiences with bands that have made a significant effort to bring something unique visually to the stage?

I mean, it's so inspiring. I feel like especially Amon Amarth, that was something I feel like I was trying to manifest for a while. It was just something always in my mind where I'm like, "Oh, if we got to that level where we could open for Amon Amarth, I feel like that would be a really beautifully complimentary show."

And then with Dethklok in the mix, I have seen every single episode of Metalocalypse. I'm a huge fan. So that was another mind-blowing component that I couldn't even dream up. Those two together and then us included and it's so cool to see how other bands approach putting on a show and seeing similarities and differences. It's cool to be inspired, while not ripping anyone off and being like, "Oh, how do they do that thing or solve this issue?"

READ MORE: The Rock and Metal Bands Touring in 2026

Also, the bands and the crew are so kind, and we're seeing where kindness goes a really long way. Where I'm like, "Okay, cool. If we end up in their position down the road, I am definitely going to remember how nice they were to us." And then if we're bringing someone on the road to ensure that we treat them with the same kindness and offers and the sense of inclusion.

I can't remember who, but someone from Dethklok's crew yesterday, grabbed me by the shoulders and he was like, "Please, come and watch side stage. Like, I don't want you guys to feel like you're not allowed to be there. Remember you guys are a part of this tour, and for a reason, so come watch."

And someone else was like, "Oh, we have a bunch of leftover stuff in our green room if you guys need anything for the bus. Rummage through and take what you need." I didn't expect any of that, so it's really, it's just so nice to be treated with kindness and it's very inspiring and that's something that I want to definitely emulate as we move forward as a band.

With Castle Rat, obviously venue, set length and finances to some extent limit your ability right now, but take away all of that. Is there a dream stage production that you'd like to put on for Castle Rat if there were no limitations? Have you thought that far ahead?

Oh, yeah. I know how to dream, that's for sure. Castle Rat is a constant act of dreaming really big and then figuring out how to fit it into reality. Let's see. Dream gig would be I would ride out on a unicorn a la Rob Halford riding out on a motorcycle.

And we have the Castle Rat, which is a giant omnipotent beast with eyes of white and wings of leather. So it's a big rat with wings. I think it would be really cool to find a way for the Castle Rat to fly over the heads of the crowd.

Amazing.

Some sort of wire trick similar to KISS. And yeah, I would really like, similar to King Diamond the few times I've seen them, he has, like, a whole multi-tier stage production where the one that I saw it was a hospital with multiple floors and I would love to have something like that that's like a castle scape.

Maybe halfway through the set we're able to spin it around and it's a different setting. I wanna really get into all those real life special effects, 'cause so often I'm like, "How do we do this thing?" And someone will be like, "Oh, a projection on a screen." And I'm like, "I need it to be three-dimensional and tangible 'cause-"

Inflatables.

Inflatables. The Amon Amarth. I walked out next to the stage and I was like, "Where did they keep those? They're huge."

Yeah.

And then they turned to the fans and I was like, "Oh, That makes so much sense. Wow." Yeah, inflatables are a brilliant thing.

Riley, obviously, the focus is on touring right now, but does the road offer you the chance to write or create?

I feel like it offers a chance to conceptualize. My plan once we get off the road is to hopefully create a music video for every song on The Bestiary and hopefully release it on physical media where you can listen and watch the album top to bottom and have it be sort of a connected tale.

Love that.

I spend time brainstorming how I'm gonna tackle that once I get back. I'm not good at writing on the road. That I haven't figured out. It always starts as a very private experience, and there's not a lot of alone time on the road. So that's an at-home thing, but there's lots of brainstorming about future shows or props to make or conceptualizing for the third album on a bigger scale or planning what that stage show might look like.

Well, Riley, I'm so glad we got a chance to speak. I'm so excited for everyone needs to listen and pick up the new record, The Bestiary. See this band on the road. Riley, I see big things in your future and for Castle Rat, and I'm just so excited for you guys, and I can't wait to get a chance to see you live in person.

Thanks to Castle Rat's Riley Pinkerton for the interview. The Bestiary is available now. And stay up to date with Castle Rat through their website, Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. Find out where you can hear Full Metal Jackie's weekend radio show here.

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